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On the first morning of my holiday I awoke to find this in my email inbox even though I had forbidden and blocked Chris Beach. But he always finds a way round - this time using the se23.life mods account:

From [email protected] to [email protected]
August 19 2020 00:56

Just a heads up Stuart,

Nicola has announced (not on STF of course) that she’s building a new forum for SE London called The Big SE Forum. Check her tweets (nicdelamitch)

I think you’ll see her drop STF like a mouldy turd as soon as she starts promoting her own forum (which was undoubtedly her intention for a long time while she was systematically trying to destroy my reputation and manipulate others into her little gang).

She’s used you and your forum and she’s about to try to replace you (and me).

Thanks to you and your forum, and the various lies you’ve hosted there, she has enough people on-side to make a concerted effort at starting her rival community (more so than her last attempt “WeAreSE23“).

I don’t enjoy sharing this news with you. But we’re shortly to be in the same boat, whether we like it or not.

Chris

This was indeed news to me - but as Nicola's account is private to an attempt stop Chris gaining access I had to ask:

On 19/08/2020 00:56, Chris Beach via SE23.life wrote:
> [ChrisBeach]     ChrisBeach <https://se23.life/u/chrisbeach> Admin
> August 18
>
> Just a heads up Stuart,
>
> Nicola has announced (not on STF of course) that she’s building a new forum for SE London called The Big SE Forum. Check her tweets (nicdelamitch)

I don't have access. Do you?

Stuart 
From [email protected] to [email protected]
August 19 2020 10:57

You can request to follow nicdelamitch and thebigseforum on Twitter. You and her (and her sockpuppets [redacted]) seem to get on very well on STF. Let’s see if she’ll allow you see what she’s up to on Twitter…
From [email protected] to [email protected]

I did last week but haven't been approved. How on earth did you?
From [email protected] to [email protected]
August 19 2020 11:01

Not all of her thousands of followers hate me…

Having watched Chris setup multiple fake accounts I am not convinced.

From [email protected] to [email protected]

Care to copy me the tweet?

Stuart

Then out of the blue …

From [email protected] to [email protected]
August 19 2020 11:12

Care to retract the hate thread you’re hosting on behalf of Nicola, the one that’s trying to destroy my reputation? (note: this is not a ploy - Nicola’s tweet does exist, and I’m happy to share details and co operate with you, but I need your co operation in return).
From [email protected] to [email protected]

Chris,

I'm sorry but with all the reputational damage you have inflicted on me in your forums that's not a realistic request.

Regards,
Stuart 
From [email protected] to [email protected]
August 19 2020 13:03

Stuart,

I know that you’re a pragmatic man, and you have no interest in a long term battle between our interests

In this case the casualties of our battle have been ourselves and the culture of our forums, and the new victor is our common competitor - The Big SE Forum (and let there be no doubt, Nicola has a following and can make this work - and she will be able to highlight the cultural problems / infighting between our forums in selling her new venture).

There are probably several threads on my forums that are doing harm to both your interests and mine (including the one where I commented on your database, and the more recent one on SE26.life where people have commented negatively about STF). When I get home I’m willing to remove these threads and make a sincere promise to you that no such conversation will be repeated/tolerated again.

In return will you consider taking down the negative threads on your forum? Obviously it’s fair for this to be a two way street, and additionally I’m entirely happy for you to take public credit for brokering peace if you do wish.

Chris
From [email protected] to [email protected]

Chris,

I do not want any Se23/Se26.life threads removed. To do so would be encourage censorship. I can't be part of that or any backroom deal.

If you are not freely willing to correct (which would be nice but not expected) then your posts should stay there as living quotable testimony to how you seek to deceive and divide our community.

If I have to take a hit - and I guess there may be more to come - then I am happy to take them in the belief they are doing more damage to your reputation than mine.

The only way to stop that is to stop. Not my words but of someone you admire enough to quote as being proud of her part in the establishment of Se23.life.

Regards,
Stuart 
From [email protected] to [email protected]
August 20 2020 22:08

I’m happy to talk again when you’ve given it more thought.
From [email protected] to [email protected]

Chris,

I have. I don't want fights. I should have just replied to your original email about TheBigSEForum with "it's your problem. It doesn't involve or worry me".

And ended it there. Period.

Regards,
Stuart 

We now enter true la-la land where I'm the monster running STF.

From [email protected] to [email protected]
August 21 2020 11:10

If you don’t want fights, could you kindly take down the several hundred (and counting) aggressive personally-targeted posts you’re hosting on your forum, many of which contain lies.
From [email protected] to [email protected]

Chris,

The fact you are unable to accept I can't has led you down a very self damaging path. A little bit of trust would have saved a great deal of pain to you and others.

If I can act as an intermediary between those that do have the power of building a reconciliation that's fine.

Remember I'm no enemy of se23.life. A very critical friend like [redacted] - YEP IN SPADES!

I would like to see se23.life be a community success. That, I believe, implies it being open and welcoming to all local people of goodwill. And living up to it's original aspirations which I very much admire. Trust is the healer here.

Something you could be proud to have on your CV without question. One that could easily see off competition from yet another forum.

Regards,
Stuart 
From [email protected] to [email protected]
August 21 2020 12:01

Sorry, I couldn’t find anything in your last message except truisms.

As I said, when you’re ready to stop the hostilities, and back down from hosting aggressive nonsense targeting me and the SE23.life mod team, I’m happy to comply with any reasonable demands from you.

The mod team have made it very clear they will not reinstate [redacted] to our forum as he has a catalogue of very aggressive and pointlessly hostile behaviour toward our members, despite the mod team’s best efforts to reason with him.

You’re very welcome to redacted] on your forum, where he seems to have found a natural home.

Chris
From [email protected] to [email protected]

Chris - you are talking to yourself - not the STF Admin. What more can I say or do?

"He who rests on canine authority may well join them".

Regards,
Stuart 

'Canine' is a recent reference when challenged to what evidence he had I was the STF Admin - responded “even the dogs in the street know it”. In other words: NONE.

But someone wasn't listening - and continues to want to get the real STF Admin onside to presumably attack a fellow community forum set up by someone from our community.

From [email protected] to [email protected]
August 21 2020 12:08

Bear in mind that whatever Nicola comes up with is likely to:

a) be technically superior to STF and
b) become a magnet for anyone with grievances against me

Given the above, people will have absolutely no need to use STF anymore

So, you ought to think very carefully about how you’re allowing Nicola to exploit STF and further her own plans.

You feed the crocodile hoping it will eat you last.
From [email protected] to [email protected]

> Given the above, people will have absolutely no need to use STF anymore

Quite possibly. It would be sad to lose an old friend but that isn't my problem - as I've said it's more yours.

Stuart 
From [email protected] to [email protected]

> On 21/08/2020 12:15, Chris Beach via SE23.life wrote:
> [ChrisBeach]     ChrisBeach <https://se23.life/u/chrisbeach> Admin
> August 21
>
> “Even the dogs in the street know Stuart is admin”
> [redacted], long-standing member of STF and attendee of the most recent meet-up where “admin” was present.

Except they were not. Look it would be a lot easier dealing with you if I was. As for [redacted] - I did ask her to confirm your claim. She didn't. Indeed afair she admitted on STF that it was a joke. A bad one but there you go.

If you wish to continue destroying your own credibility in SE26 by maintaining this fiction - be my guest.

Stuart 

And again from la-la land …

From [email protected] to [email protected]
August 21 2020 12:21

Your falling into the “enemy of my enemy is my friend” trap.
But that isn’t my problem, it’s yours.

My forums will remain peaceful. Your forum will remain hostile
Peace and respect remains the Dot Life USP in the local area, and one that I intend to maintain.

You / Nicola will find that love always triumph over hate in the end.

Now let's see if he is serious about a deal with Nicola

From [email protected] to [email protected]

I thought the object was to get me onboard against Nicola's forum. I've offered to help as an intermediary. Insults and threats are a strange way to proceed.

Going to war with me (again) instead gets you nowhere with your immediate issue.

I won't be opening any email from you for 24 hours. I hope that will give you time to think through whether you wish to do anything about TheBigSEForum and how to go about it.

Sleep well,
Stuart

Not 24 hours but 5 minutes later I received this thoughtful response with added threat:

From [email protected] to [email protected]
August 21 2020 12:30

Honestly I don’t care much that you’re deceiving local people about the administration of your forum. I’d just like you to stop using your forum to host hate and libel, because that libel is targeting me.

If you refuse to take responsibility, that’s fine, but bear in mind, someone is going to visibly bear responsibility for it when this becomes bigger than a simple “forum war” spat, and when other authorities, unfortunately, need to get involved. And I suspect that someone will be the man who owns the domain, the data, the software instance, and whose company is intrinsically linked to the forum.

Five minutes later another threat to a STF poster arrives:

From [email protected] to [email protected]
August 21 2020 12:35

Bear in mind also that the identity of “[redacted]” and co might also be brought to light, Stuart.

Four minutes later more threats:

From [email protected] to [email protected]
August 21 2020 12:39

Taking legal action is going to represent an irritating distraction for me, but the rewards are looking more appealing every day that you use your forum as a vehicle to attack my character and professional reputation

It would be really rewarding to see you in court explaining some of the identities you’ve used to attack me.

Needless to say I have only used my one name “stuart” on STF in regard to Chris/SE23.life etc. This is not going well. Chris has obviously lost it.

Three minutes later more ….

From [email protected] to [email protected]
August 21 2020 12:42

I am planning to retire early, at [redacted]. I don’t really need any more cash to lead a comfortable retirement.

When I retire, I’ll be able to focus wholeheartedly on building great local communities.

I’ll also be able to focus a lot of attention on using legal avenues to expose some of the irritants I’ve had to tolerate along the way.

Believe me, I’ll have a lot of spare time on my hands, and thanks to your continued actions, I’ll have much cause for focus.

Finally an almost reconcilatory message:

If you’re sincere about “helping” you’d remove the personal attacks, or act as an intermediary to those who are attacking, and recommend that they remove the attacks.

I look forward to seeing some evidence of sincerity from you.

I’m not going to go round in circles or play games here. I’m serious about this. You’ll get to know that over time.

I took a time out for Chris to cool. Ignoring the above I came back the following day with what I think is an honest assessment of the current situation that Chris could respond positively to:

From [email protected] to [email protected]

Chris,

You hoped I would be pragmatic and I hope you are too. Let's get down to some realpolitik.

If the stuff on STF were to disappear - how many nanoseconds do you think it would take before it re-appeared elsewhere? Plus associated outrage at the removal which would add a unhelpful Streisand affect?

You can try and play whack-a-mole but in reality there is you and a lot of people each bearing different grudges against you. It's not going to work. Making a bad situation worse is a lot easier.

Now I know that STF threads are bad for you. It's awful that they should have to be there. But in many people's eyes totally justified. If you want to be rid of the content then in reality it isn't in my or the STF Admin's gift to deliver anymore. It's now gone well beyond STF. They may be putting up stuff right now.

There are ways out of this for you. You are a businessman and I assume you apply the standard SWOT analysis.

Strengths you don't need me to elaborate. You created the .life brand. You got together a great team and software to steal the long established SE23.COM market. You got praise from everyone (including me).

While no one doubts your technical prowess with code and systems I'm sure you realise that dealing with people is more problematic. You did piss off more people than was healthy including some who were highly regarded within our community. Like it or not SE23.life instead of going from strength to strength has now become problematic for many.

As for threats - well they are lining up behind the person that was the subject of your first email. Your posts on se26.life has given them all the ammunition they need.

Which leaves opportunities. First - and this is very sincere - no one I know wants se23.life to go down. They don't want it to be 'troubled'. They want it (and Forest Hill) to be a success.

You are brilliant at creating websites. Not so good at running them. Play to your strengths create more of your brand. Repeat your successes. And then get around the difficult bit by franchising them out and moving on to the next one Richard & Maurice McDonald style.

Maybe your original choice [redacted] would be good for se26.life. He is well liked everywhere. As for se23.life you already have a team but it feels like they don't have true autonomy. Be brave - the art of good management is real delegation and the art of succession.

So where do we go from here? I've been honest and sincere. But you don't have to trust that. Use someone like [redacted] (who I have not yet contacted) to get everyone with baggage to find a way of losing your bad publicity on one side and the threat of any more attacking stuff from your side. A real cease fire.

There may be other ways out of the issue. Do bring them to the table. We don't need closed minds.

I'll be back online probably sometime tomorrow.

Regards,
Stuart 

In response I got what I thought of as a positive response:

From [email protected] to [email protected]
August 22 2020 19:57

> If the stuff on STF were to disappear - how many nanoseconds do you
> think it would take before it re-appeared elsewhere?

One thing I’ve noticed about healthy online communities outside of se23 dot com and STF is that nasty unsubstantiated personal attacks are not tolerated. That goes for all the Facebook groups I’ve seen, and all the web based forums I use. They don’t host the kind of stuff you do on STF. So I don’t worry too much about the Streisand effect, because there aren’t many fallback options for these vicious trolls.

It is possible that some of the trolls on STF might re-post the stuff onto se23 dot com. But if [redacted] can be reasoned with, and if he has an inkling of wanting to restore the credibility and protect the future of his forum, he might be minded to remove the hateful content and enforce guidelines that prevent future personal abuse.

> Like it or not SE23.life instead of going from strength to strength has now become problematic for many.

If seeing a healthy, growing and well-functioning community forum (which does not tolerate personal abuse) is problematic for some people, then I think that is their problem to deal with. I think several of these detractors simply wish SE23.life had been their idea first.

> And then get around the difficult bit by franchising them out and moving on

Yes, I am very sincere about wanting to cede control, provided the sites move into hands that I can trust with the personal data it contains. And also someone who has the same mindset that I do in terms of building a strong community forum that allows people from across the political spectrum to participate equally.

[redacted - Chris is discussing personalities on his/other forums]

A significant problem I have that the moderators (and others) have seen the treatment I’ve received on rival forum. And they don’t want to be in my position. I frequently get asked how I put up with this, and how is my mental health bearing up?

At the end of the day, regarding “succession”, sadly I’m struggling to find anyone who’d want to be in my position.

I thought it was the time to ask for a deal that might be acceptable people who do have control of what Chris wants to 'disappear'.

From [email protected] to [email protected]

Chris,

I put forward some ideas last week as to how we could go forward and invited you to suggest alternatives. I don't think you have really answered that.

I'm not sure where we go from here. The stuff you object to does contain quite justified comment on you. Namely you publishing factually incorrect and defamatory stuff about people, seeking to deceive through the use of fake accounts, using your forums to run 'hate' campaigns and so on*.

It is not surprising that you may have received some blowback you may consider too zealous - but the issue is it's going to keep coming while you keep doing.

If you stop doing bad things then I'll have no need to call you out and will throw my weight against anybody who falsely accuses you of stuff. That's my deal.

Given a permanent guaranteed cessation of hostilities there would be no need for those blackmarks against your name. Hence, no need to keep them online.

So what say you?

Regards,
Stuart

* Please don't waste time and aggravation denying it. I have too much documented irrefutable proof. Let's be adult and move on. 

But no joy. Chris reverts to stuck record mode which isn't and can't work:

From [email protected] to [email protected]
August 27 2020 13:20

I don’t have the time or inclination to go through all of the false claims made on your website, hosted by you, encouraged by you, on a domain your company is responsible for.

You’re in no position to judge or police my behaviour, but you are in a position to remove the stains on your forum and prevent further abuse happening there.

I hope you’ll do the right thing before you’re legally compelled to, which we both know is going to be embarrassing for you.

Let’s not waste our time going round in circles here. Please stop the abuse and make amends by clearing up the content you’re hosting.

Chris.

Am I beginning to lose it?

From [email protected] to [email protected]

And the moon is made of cheese. Might make sense to a mouse but not to me. As you are refusing to engage with reality there is no point continuing.

If you do have someone you trust - they are welcome to try and arbitrate this division.

Goodbye,
Stuart

Around we go again …

From [email protected] to [email protected]
August 27 2020 14:36

We don’t need to bother asking an adult to arbitrate if you stop mincing around and give me a clear set of things you’re willing to do in exchange for a reasonable and clear set of things you want from me.

Tell me which content bothers you on my social media feeds, and my forums. I am sincerely offering to remove it, in exchange for you removing the bile you’re hosting on your own forum and giving me an assurance you will stop hosting further personal abuse. And of course I’m not going to “continue” any abuse, because if you stopped to check (beyond reading the nonsense on STF), I’m not actually engaging in any abuse of others.
From [email protected] to [email protected]

Chris,

To repeat - I have no wish for you to remove anything. Add a correction if you wish but that's your choice.

I take full responsibility for my own posts. I cannot take responsibility for any others - but I am willing to engage with them with one exception - the STF Admin. Chinese Walls was part of the handover agreement that I will not seek to influence their moderation. Otherwise it wasn't a handover.

It's up to you if you wish to maintain your (completely without foundation) delusion but there you are if you wish to continue blowing your credibility.

If you are serious you know the contact: [redacted]. But given most of what was posted was undoubtedly true it's a big call unless you have a lot to offer. Offering to remove stuff about me doesn't qualify.

Regards,
Stuart

And another threat.

From [email protected] to [email protected]
August 27 2020 14:56

Yes I agree this trade is a big ask. There’s barely anything hosted by me that you might find objectionable, and so much hosted by you that I find objectionable.

So obviously you have very little to gain from such a trade, except the security of knowing that I will not pursue you using the legal system in future.

Oh and please don’t do the “I’m not admin” dance again, Stuart, it’s cringeworthy and I don’t care in any case. I’ve been very clear about what I’d like from you, and what I am willing to do (and not do) in return. Ball’s in your court now.

Perhaps i shouldn't say it but what else is there to believe?

From [email protected] to [email protected]

Ok so that tells me you are completely bonkers. Thee i no point in further attempts to communicate. This was your last chance.

Further contact on this subject will be regarded as harrassment and will be reported.

This route is now blocked.

Goodbye,
Stuart 
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